Scott Schirmer is the award-winning filmmaker of such controversial features as FOUND (2012), HEADLESS (2015), and the upcoming GUSH (2025). He recently was gracious enough to take some time to sit down with HORROR TO CULTURE to discuss his career, inspirations, and advice for independent filmmakers. Likewise, you can read my previous review of FOUND & HEADLESS HERE.
MAD: Scott, it’s a pleasure speaking with you today! I’m a big fan of your 2012 film FOUND, as well as its movie-within-a-movie “sequel”, HEADLESS (2015). To start things off, how did you first get involved in film-making, and what were some of the cinematic inspirations that lead you down this particular path?
SS: I wanted to be a filmmaker since I saw 'The Empire Strikes Back' in 1980. I was 6 years old and I tried never to miss an episode of Siskel & Ebert, and I tuned in to Entertainment Tonight every Monday night to hear the box office grosses. In 5th grade, my teacher had the class pair up to create filmstrips. We wrote the stories, recorded the narration to music, and drew the illustrations on those tiny little acetate squares. And then we showed our work to the class and competed in regional media fairs. My project won a lot of awards and I think that pretty much cemented the idea of devoting my life to audio-visual storytelling. It was how I expressed myself -- and I really felt like it was what I was meant to do. I finally graduated to VHS filmmaking my senior year. And then I made a few movies on mini-DV cassette in the early '00s. But it was heartbreaking working on anything other than film itself because the quality just wasn't there and the public would never take your work seriously without that filmic quality. So I gave up around 2005. But then DSLR cameras hit the market, and those convinced me it was time to get back in the game around 2010. They look just like film! Around that time, I discovered Todd Rigney's book 'Found' and fell head-over-heels in love with it. So the timing was just perfect, I guess.
MAD: In my opinion, through FOUND, you’ve reached a sort of “legendary” status with the fact that such an impressively unique and memorable DIY film was produced for only $8000 dollars. With FOUND, you won 15 best picture awards at over 40 international film festivals devoted to horror, and it has since (along with HEADLESS) earned a sort of “cult classic” following. Can you take us back to the whirlwind that must have been taking place for you during the 2012 release? What stands out the most for you, professionally, during this period of film-making and going on tour with its promotion?
SS: Part of me was happily shocked and surprised. I edited 'Found' for six months and had no idea what I thought of it anymore, but five or six friends were my first test screening, and they really went out of their way to tell me how good they thought it was. I could tell they weren't just trying to be nice. So that kind of gave me the confidence to say, 'Okay, let's put this one out there. Let's do festivals and everything.' Because I'd written many scripts and made several movies before 'Found' that just weren't good enough to promote. After winning our first festival, Elvira's Horror Hunt, the movie went on to win about half the contests I entered, which is just unheard of. It will never happen again. I can't believe it happened at all. But the movie had its haters, too. And I learned early on not to take good or bad reviews too seriously, or you'd go crazy. Validation can be a killer. You really have to go into making a movie with the goal of making one that YOU will like. No one else really matters. And if you communicate your vision well enough, a good portion of the audience is bound to relate with you and like the movie. Anyway, with 'Found', I think it was a testament to Todd's story more than anything, honestly. People were ready to experience that kind of a story with that kind of a character. It hit a sweet nostalgia button for horror fans. I just tried not to mess up the execution too much, and find the best people I could to play the parts and do the effects, and everything.
That festival run was indeed a whirlwind. An amazing one. I got to travel the country with my friends who helped me make the movie, and we had some nice experiences and met some interesting people. After winning Elvira's Horror Hunt, we had a premiere in L.A. at the Vista Theater, which Quentin Tarantino recently purchased. Elvira had one of those classic Klieg lights fanning the sky. We rode up to a literal red carpet in her Macabre-Mobile. Cameras were flashing. We hung out with Joe Bob Briggs, Bill Moseley, and Sybill Danning at the theater. These were the judges who picked "Found" to win that competition, and they gave us advice about distribution and other festivals. To have my movie playing at a famous old movie theater like the Vista was very special to me. Such an overwhelming, fantastic experience, all thanks to Elvira and Peaches Christ for putting on that one-time festival together. They were both so gracious.
Toronto After Dark, Nevermore Film Festival, the Phoenix Film Festival, and the New York City Horror Film Festival were definitely highlights I will never forget. I was standing in the concession line at the swanky movie theater in Phoenix, hearing people in line talk about how controversial "Found" was. One person said it was disturbing and disgusting. And then another said, 'But it's the only one we're talking about.' I took that as a win. I loved it. And my God, the people at Toronto After Dark make all their filmmakers feel like rock stars. And they had sold-out shows in a huge auditorium with the biggest screen I ever saw. Toronto loved "Found". It was all overwhelming when we were experiencing it, but the further we get away from that festival run back in 2012 and 2013, the more I realize just how rare and special it really was. I think that was my lucky time, when the stars aligned, and the universe met me halfway, you know? It was so, so, so incredibly sweet and wonderful. Once in a lifetime. If you're lucky.
MAD: It should be stated that FOUND & HEADLESS were not without controversy. Both were banned in certain regions, and I have to admit, even to a hard-core horror enthusiast such as myself, there are certain scenes in both films that are uncomfortable, graphic, and disgusting. They are not easy watches and often show up on fan favorite lists of “Most Disturbing Films”. Did you intentionally set out to create something “shocking” or was that just the natural visceral progression these scripts took? Were you trying to challenge the audience? What do you find disturbing?
SS: To some degree, yes, you are trying to push the envelope for your base audience - the die hard horror fans. But I always try to earn any moments of extreme violence or sexuality. I try very hard not to make them feel gratuitous. Except in "Headless," which is very purposefully an exploitation movie - a whole other can of worms. With "Found" in particular, I remember having Chinese food with Arthur Cullipher and Leya Taylor, the FX artist and photographer, and my friends, and I was telling them I had cold feet about the full frontal nudity in the movie's climax that we were about to shoot that weekend. Even though it was a prosthetic worn by the actor, I was still unsure whether that kind of graphic depiction was warranted. They encouraged me to stick to my guns, that it would help make the film stand out in people's memories. And I'm glad they were there to do that, because today I absolutely agree with them. "Found", and all my movies really, are about our fears of sex, the dark side of human sexuality, which is a subject matter I continually find disturbing. If you're making movies about that sort of thing, I think you've probably got a good reason to get a bit graphic. But only as much as necessary to get the point across, not one frame more... unless, again, you're making "Headless". In that case, there are no rules. And that can be very fun to make, and to watch. It's for a niche audience, but God love them. "Headless" isn't quite my kind of movie, but I had more fun making it than any other movie.
MAD: I know this is a rather broad question, but can you give us any insight into what goes in behind the scenes in producing quality, micro-budget films? I recently had the opportunity to interview Christopher Bickel who wrote/directed the awesome 2024 horror film PATER NOSTER AND THE MISSION OF LIGHT for only $20,000 dollars, and am extremely interested in the process of the independent filmmaker. How do you juggle and balance the script, the cast, the special effects, and the cinematography (not to mention editing process and soundtrack), on such a slim budget?
SS: If I ever had to pay a director of photography, an editor, or a writer, my budgets would be much bigger. For most of my movies, we paid the actors a day rate, and we paid for a sound recorder and a composer on most of them. That's it. The FX artists are usually paid on deferment from any potential profits, just like I'm paid. I've kept the budgets between five and fifteen grand by never paying myself upfront, and by partnering with people who would take deferred payment for doing those core jobs I mentioned. Working with Forbidden Films (with Arthur Cullipher, Leya Taylor, and Shane Beasley) and Bandit Motion Pictures (with Brian K. Williams and Ellie Church), the production partners and I usually wrote, directed, produced, shot, and edited. So we never had to pay for those jobs. From what I gather, that's rare. Most movie productions especially hire outside talent for photography and editing, which are the hardest job and the most time-consuming job on any movie, respectively. Learn one of those jobs, and you'll save a lot of money on your movies.
MAD: Do you have any advice for aspiring filmmakers who might be new to the craft? What is the most important part of the process, in your opinion?
SS: I've become such a grumpy old man these days, that I honestly wouldn't encourage anyone to get into filmmaking. The artform has basically died over the last 10 or 20 years in my opinion, and the commercial industry is now also on the brink of death. There's no future in it. I think 'the movies' are maybe going to transform into something else in the near future, something involving A.I. to the point where any snot-nosed kid will be able to make 'Star Wars' on their laptop at home. Movies will not be as valuable or desired. They already aren't. When I was a kid, movies were so special. They were an event. They left a cultural impact. Today, they are utterly disposable. Young people don't watch them anymore. They do not care about them in the least. They only care about short-form crap like Tik-Tok videos. So my advice would be to find something else to do if you want to make a living or make something people might want to experience.
But if you just can't help yourself, if feature filmmaking is your calling, then I'd say watch as many films as you can, ask yourself why you like or don't like certain films, and apply that analysis to your filmmaking. Figure out what makes you special -- what is your unique point of view? What can you offer as a storyteller that no one else is offering at this time? Because the story is the main thing. All the rest is window dressing. Not that window dressing can't be amazing in its own right. A story worth telling is the fuel that will sustain you through to the end. Without that fuel, you'll lose interest, and so will the audience.
MAD: You have a new film coming out in early 2025 entitled GUSH, described as a “psychosexual horror thriller”, which I’m very much looking forward to. Please tell us a little more about GUSH, what viewers might expect, and the easiest ways we can watch.
SS: After 'The Bad Man' in 2018, I didn't think I'd make another movie. But Brian K. Williams convinced me last Fall to take the plunge with him again. He proposed 'Gush' and I helped flesh it out into a screenplay with him. Then we produced and directed it together, and we are currently editing it together. It's about a horror writer whose suffered a miscarriage and doesn't want to write horror anymore, but she feels compelled to finish a trilogy she started. She's helped by a supernatural muse character and ends up falling in love with the muse. But the muse's help comes with a lofty price. We're especially proud of the performances that Ellie Church, Alyss Winkler, and Jason Crowe give in this one, and it's got a lot of beautiful, trippy imagery in it. It's a weird movie and it's shaping up nicely. We hope to have it finished by June. Right now you can pre-order a Blu-ray on Indiegogo, which is honestly the only sure-fire way to see it. The film has so much nudity in it, we're not sure if any streamers are going to pick it up. We hope so, though. Most of our stuff finds its way to Tubi and Plex.
MAD: How important of a role does physical media still play, particularly in independent film-making?
SS: Physical media has dropped out of the mainstream almost entirely. I think it's back to the niche market size it had when laserdisc was king. The pricing is returning to those days, as well. But that niche market is strong and stable by many counts, and indie film fans tend to also be collectors of physical media. So I would say it still matters to indie filmmakers, even if it doesn't to the general public anymore. I personally will always be bullish on physical media. I'm not a big streamer -- not of movies, anyway. I'd rather put in a 4K disc and watch a movie in my dedicated home theater. I think there will be enough of us 'hardcore' film enthusiasts to keep the niche market alive for at least a few more decades.
MAD: With all of the streaming possibilities, have we entered a new era for horror content, akin to the 80’s boom of VHS?
SS: Since I don't stream movies, I don't honestly know about most horror movies made today. I'm really out of touch, unfortunately. I don't watch many new movies at all. I think I saw 2 or maybe 3 new movies in all of 2024. I just don't care about them anymore. Photography has become lazy with light-sensitive digital cameras, music scores have become dreadful, and most of the directors are young punks hired because they're easily controlled by the studios, not because they have a compelling vision. Today's movies just don't do it for me, in general. I'd rather watch an older movie I've never seen -- or a favorite movie for a hundredth time. In the last week, I watched "Apocalypse Now," "Rocky," "Rocky II," "Legend," "Jeremiah Johnson," and "The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert." I know I sound so old. I guess I am now!
MAD: Do you have a favorite horror film of 2024, or the past couple of years?
SS: I haven't seen a single horror movie released in the last couple of years -- I might catch up on them some day, though. The last great horror film for me was 2015's "The Witch". That film blows me away. Possibly my favorite of the last 24 years. I also really dug that director's other films, "The Lighthouse" and "The Northman". I'm pre-ordering his "Nosferatu" remake as soon as it's available. I'd rather wait to watch a movie in my home theater than go to an actual movie theater anymore. I also loved Alex Garland's "Men".
MAD: All time favorite books or authors? Bands/musicians?
SS: The book that had the biggest impact on me as a filmmaker was one I discovered in college. "The Writer's Journey" by Christopher Vogler. It blew my teenage mind away and taught me more about screenwriting than anything else ever did. I recently enjoyed "A Masterpiece in Disarray: David Lynch's Dune, an Oral History" by Max Evry, because I love that movie. Talk about 'window dressing'. That movie is the king of spectacular window dressing.
Music-wise, I have always listened to film scores. John Williams, James Horner, and Jerry Goldsmith are my jam. Not a month goes by that I don't listen to the soundtrack to "Krull".
MAD: If you could cast any actor living or dead, in your next film, who would it be?
SS: Assuming they're nice people in real life, I've always been a big admirer of Julianne Moore and would love the chance to work with her. But there are so many. Paul Giamatti would be amazing, too. I always wanted to work with the late Maggie Smith, too. Although I'm sure she would have intimidated the hell out of me.
MAD: Are you ever actually going to make Wolf Baby, haha?
SS: No. But never say never.
MAD: Thanks again for taking some time to talk with us at HORROR TO CULTURE today! Are there any parting words you’d like to leave readers with?
SS: Thanks for having me and taking an interest in my work. Everyone have a great 2025!
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Michael A. Dyer is the host of the HORROR TO CULTURE podcast, vidcast, and website.
